AI is now considered much too old, too slow, too full of glitches to hold the high tech office of president of the United Stechs of America.

Join Michael in his conversation with Oliver Franklin-Wallis as they discuss him new book, Wasteland: The Secret World of Waste and the Urgent Search for a Cleaner Future which takes inside the secretive multi-billion-dollar waste management industry and shares a blueprint for building a healthier and more sustainable future before we are buried in our own trash.